Nava Atlas

Nava Atlas is an American cookbook author and illustrator known for her work on the groundbreaking and inventive “Vegetariana” and her “Vegan Soups and Stews For All Seasons,” now in its fourth edition.

Truly a pioneer in the culinary world, activism, literature, and art, Vegetariana first hit bookshelves in 1984. Now, 37 years later, Nava’s premier work encompassing recipes, food lore, and imaginative illustrations has been reborn for a whole new generation of compassionate cooks.

Nava’s “Vegan Soups and Stews For All Seasons,” features 120 Vegan Soup and Stew recipes that have been tried and true over the last 25 years. Nava’s vegan chicken noodle soup is one of her favorite recipes from the book. Here is the recipe from her blog, The Vegan Atlas and make sure to follow her substack newsletter at The Vegan Atlas

 and Literary Ladies Guide is at 

Whether you’re looking for a colorful global stew or a refreshing cold soup, there’s something for every soup lover in these pages.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Stephanie [00:00:11]:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to Dishing with Stephanie's dish, the podcast where we talk to people obsessed with food, and we do talk to a lot of cookbook authors, and I feel pretty honored today. I'm with, I feel like, a living legend, not only in the vegetarian category, but vegan category, and also a fellow soup lover, which is so exciting. Good morning, Nava. How are you? Welcome to the show, Nava Hatless.

Nava Atlas [00:00:35]:

Thank you. Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited to be here, and I'll tell you why in a moment.

Stephanie [00:00:41]:

Okay. So let us talk because you have Vegetariana was one of your first books, which is

Nava Atlas [00:00:48]:

This is my first.

Stephanie [00:00:49]:

Okay. And it is a hoot. It has, like, these hand drawn illustrations, little bits of wisdom throughout. It is really a well done book, and it was reissued in the last couple of years and made all completely vegan. Did you go vegan later in life? Or tell me about that transition.

Nava Atlas [00:01:08]:

It was exactly, I would say, 20. I go by my son's age because he was 10 when he went vegan, and now he's 32. So it's always easy for me to keep track. So, yeah, 22 years vegan. I was vegetarian since high school. So I was kind of an early adopter, not necessarily on the veganism side of it, but, you know, I remember even in being a weirdo as a vegetarian back then. And also I was gonna say that, you know, I've really seen this whole progression from analog to digital and, you know, wanting to familiarize myself with you, your work, your podcast. I went straight to and, of course, I'm going to forget.

Nava Atlas [00:01:51]:

Oh, John Kung. Yeah. And he was talking about Detroit, and I was so thrilled because I grew up right outside Detroit.

Stephanie [00:02:02]:

My radio partner grew up outside Detroit too. And I really I love Detroit. I visited and had, like, 4 very memorable days in my life.

Nava Atlas [00:02:14]:

It is an amazing city, and it's an an amazing transformation. The last time I was there was not that long ago. It was maybe a year ago a year ago, June. Sure. And, my friend was showing me around central downtown, and then I saw an article. I'm not sure if it was in New York Times or elsewhere statistic that statistic that says that downtown Detroit is actually safer than San Francisco.

Stephanie [00:02:46]:

Oh, I believe that. Yeah. I absolutely believe that. It is a really cool place to visit. The farmer's market alone was just mind blowing to me. So many just sheds upon sheds of makers, and I've always loved maker culture and people that make products, and I have podcasts about that too. And really just enjoy the craft of people making food and how hard they have to work and how delicious it is.

Nava Atlas [00:03:15]:

And so many vegan restaurants, you know, for me, that's really my interest. And, one that had started when I was in college in Ann Arbor, I am a University of Michigan graduate, was Ceva, and now they have that beautiful place in downtown Detroit that is delicious. It is, you know, expensive on a par with New York, still very much worth it. But I, you know, I'm really glad to see the city thriving because the city has been through so much. Yeah. And I have to admit, I did not get to Eastern Market on my last visit because I also really wanted to save some time to go to Ann Arbor, my alma mater, and see how I haven't been to Ann Arbor for a longer time and how that has transformed. It looks like a little city now. And then Royal Oak looks like Ann Arbor did when I went to something there.

Stephanie [00:04:02]:

It's funny. Yeah. So veganism, I will say so I do eat meat, and I knew people that were vegans, and I knew it was a thing. And, obviously, being in the food world, you're paying attention to trends. And, obviously, eating plant based is super beneficial health wise. And then I started working on my TV show, and my executive producer is vegan. And I just really felt like I had my eyes opened to what it really means to, like, live a vegan lifestyle. And for her, she's been doing it like you for so long.

Stephanie [00:04:42]:

It's just like, oh, I just don't eat meat. It's really no big deal at all. And we are so fortunate now in that we have so many choices and so many options in our food world. Writing a cookbook that's vegan specific to soup, I thought was probably not as hard as people think because a lot of soups are vegan if you're using a vegetable broth.

Nava Atlas [00:05:03]:

Right. They're vegan. So many soups are vegan already, and soup is a very plant forward type of food, maybe second only to salad.

Stephanie [00:05:12]:

Yeah. Exactly. And that's kinda how I think about soup because I make a lot of soup, but I also make a lot because I cook a lot. So I have all of the vegetable scraps and the broths and the little dribs and drabs of things that I'm always throwing into a soup. When you put your cookbook together, was it hard for you to think about, like, okay, what recipes am I gonna put in? What am I not?

Nava Atlas [00:05:34]:

So this book, like Vegetariana, has a long history. What you're holding in your hands now is the 5th edition. I've heard. Yeah. So I think I published it. I I had an agent back then, not the same one I have now, and she said, oh, you know, publishers are saying this is just too niche. It's too specific. Couldn't find a publisher.

Nava Atlas [00:05:54]:

So I thought, you know what? I'll publish it myself. And at the time, it was it was actually so many more people are self publishing now, but it was easier back then like a lot of things. It was a very small, really diminutive hand drawn book, and it did very well. So once I had proved myself, it was picked up by Little Brown. Then it went out of print at Little Brown. I went back to self publishing it. That same editor went to Random House, so she picked it up again, and then it went out of print. It you know, none of the additions before this one had as many photographs and they weren't designed as beautifully as I would have liked.

Nava Atlas [00:06:38]:

So it was really nice to get the whole process back into my hands.

Stephanie [00:06:42]:

The book is really beautiful. So did you publish this version yourself?

Nava Atlas [00:06:47]:

This one I did because, you know, after the 4th edition, it's the likelihood of another publisher publishing something that's been in and out of print so many times is probably close to nil. Even though it has sold lots of copies, you know, people want to move on to the new thing, to the fresh thing, and it's understandable.

Stephanie [00:07:06]:

I'm pretty impressed by that. Not only that you're in your 5th edition, but as a cookbook writer myself who does publish the more traditional route, you're probably, financially, it's a much better, amount of money per book that you make probably publishing yourself than going through a publishing house.

Nava Atlas [00:07:28]:

I was going to say maybe per book for the copies that you're lucky to sell, but, you know, really at a disadvantage from the perspective of distribution. That's a big thing. Yep. I have a good distributor, but, you know, I I feel I felt like, you know, I just want a beautiful edition of this book before I leave this mortal coil. But as far as making lots of money, no. I would say to your listeners, that's not the way to get rich.

Stephanie [00:07:58]:

Yeah. No. I just see, I think about it from the perspective of, like, okay. A traditional book, the author probably makes anywhere from 3 to $7 a copy.

Nava Atlas [00:08:09]:

Less than that.

Stephanie [00:08:10]:

Okay. And then a published book that you publish yourself, people say that you can make anywhere from 15 to $22 a copy.

Nava Atlas [00:08:19]:

Oh, maybe connect me with those people. I'd like to see where they got that information. Because Okay. You know, you're not doing huge printing, so your per unit cost is not great. Right. And also, I didn't wanna print overseas because, you know, that's another thing in itself and the books have to be printed way ahead of time. Yes. And so I did it domestically, which I think they did a beautiful job.

Stephanie [00:08:42]:

It is beautiful. But the per

Nava Atlas [00:08:43]:

unit cost is going to be a little bit more. But, you know, this was a, a labor of love, I would say, to get it into print in a fashion that I'm really happy with. Because I do like you, I absolutely love soup. I think that I would say it's my very favorite category of food and eating. It just it's so digestible. And like I said, with the title, soups and stews for all seasons, you make them every time. If your people think of it fall, winter, but I love a cold summer soup. There's nothing more refreshing for dinner than, you know, when it's a warm evening like the summer we've had this past summer to have a a really delicious cold soup.

Stephanie [00:09:26]:

And like gazpacho can be revelatory. Right?

Nava Atlas [00:09:30]:

Absolutely. And a lot of these soups also, I would say in my summer chapter, about half of them are no cook. So that's great for those times where you feel like you just don't wanna turn on a single burner. Watermelon gazpacho is one of my newer favorites.

Stephanie [00:09:45]:

I did not see that in there. I'll have to look back. That sounds really interesting to me. Chilled soup is always a little I don't get there. I get there when it's really hot. I just don't think about it unless it's super hot.

Nava Atlas [00:10:00]:

I have a few that are good hot or cold. Like, one that I made not long ago, it's called tangy cold potato spinach soup.

Stephanie [00:10:08]:

And that's literally just open to that.

Nava Atlas [00:10:10]:

Oh, yeah. That it that's really good hot or cold. That could be, you know, had in the fall, nice and warm or hot. And then the next one also, cold creamy leek and potato soup because you do think leeks is a little bit more of a fall or spring vegetable. And I would say sometimes I just I don't even pay attention to the chapters. If I feel like having a winter soup in the summer, I'll do that or vice versa. You know? Well, I wouldn't have a a summer cold summer soup in the winter. But reverse, yes.

Stephanie [00:10:39]:

Yeah. Same. I was just at my cabin. It was 80 degrees, and I made, chicken broccoli soup because I just was hungry for it. Yeah. Let's talk about some of the stews. And you it feels like there's some global influences kind of in here, some Thai influences, perhaps some African influences. How do you get your ideas for recipes?

Nava Atlas [00:11:05]:

Well, if it's a it's globally influenced, I'm influenced by what I have when I go out to eat. And if I go out to eat, I like to have things that I haven't had at home or don't normally make at home, but then it's so much fun to try to recreate it in your own kitchen. And now, you know, supermarkets are a veritable feast of international ingredients, which is great. One of my favorites, my absolute favorite, what I call my favorite food hacks because I'm really lazy when it comes to Indian cuisine Mhmm. Is, simmer sauce. Mhmm. Indian. Have you ever tried any of the those?

Stephanie [00:11:42]:

Yeah. I have. Yep.

Nava Atlas [00:11:44]:

They're amazing. They really take anything you put them on tastes like it came from the best Indian restaurant because I am just simply too lazy to do the grinding 20 spices

Stephanie [00:11:54]:

and For sure.

Nava Atlas [00:11:55]:

You need to you'd get those complex flavors. It's not just about dumping some curry powder into something. So that has been really wonderful. And then in the last couple years, I would say I've really fallen in love with kimchi. Yes. Me too. Just how good it is for us. So the kimchi

Stephanie [00:12:14]:

to get past the idea like it smells. Right? When you open that first jar

Nava Atlas [00:12:20]:

or first do. Yeah.

Stephanie [00:12:22]:

Just sort of like, ugh. It's just got that really heavily fermented smell. But then when you use it, it doesn't taste like it smells at all.

Nava Atlas [00:12:30]:

It definitely mellows. And, you know, there are 2 types of kimchi. There is a kimchi made with fish sauce and I'm not I'm just guessing that might have more of the aroma.

Stephanie [00:12:39]:

Yeah.

Nava Atlas [00:12:39]:

And so I get the vegan kimchi. And again, I have a kimchi soup here and the list might look a little longer. I'm not a big fan of huge long ingredient list, by the way. A little bit longer than my usual, but it's still so easy, and it's one of those soups that's on the table in 30 minutes.

Stephanie [00:12:58]:

And which one is it?

Nava Atlas [00:12:59]:

The kimchi soup on page 63.

Stephanie [00:13:02]:

Alright. I'm just gonna take a look at that while we're sitting here too. Alright. And then stews, was that purposeful to include stews or is that just because soups kind of are like sue stews too.

Nava Atlas [00:13:15]:

You know, I have always called stews soups with a chunkier texture and a little more attitude.

Stephanie [00:13:23]:

Okay. That's a good way to describe it. I like it.

Nava Atlas [00:13:26]:

Right. So I have here this Italian mixed vegetable stew with the gnocchi, and the gnocchi tend to absorb a little bit more of the broth, so it becomes more stew like. And then I think in one of the later chapters, I have a a Thai vegetable stew with a peanut base. They're just so adaptable. You can you know, if you don't like stew like textures, you just put a little bit more liquid or water and it becomes you're back to a soup.

Stephanie [00:13:54]:

When I was looking at this easy laksa soup, the Southeast Asian influence there, I'm gonna be going to Southeast Asia in January.

Nava Atlas [00:14:03]:

Oh, really? I've never

Stephanie [00:14:04]:

been, and I was

Nava Atlas [00:14:05]:

Oh, wow.

Stephanie [00:14:06]:

There's so many delicious soups in their culture.

Nava Atlas [00:14:09]:

Absolutely. In fact, my nieces and nephews were just telling me a story that they were in, I believe it was Thailand, and they said by the end of their visit, they didn't wanna see another noodle again. Yep. There are a lot

Stephanie [00:14:21]:

of noodles in the Thailand for sure.

Nava Atlas [00:14:24]:

I don't think it would I would ever tire of that though.

Stephanie [00:14:27]:

How did you get started in cookbook writing?

Nava Atlas [00:14:30]:

That is a very interesting story. In high school, like I said I was kind of the the oddball vegetarian both at school and in my family. Don't really remember what gave me that notion other than you know, I just never liked meat. My mom did this kind of bland Eastern European cooking. And I don't know, I think I was a little bit early for the hippie era, but I was kind of a wannabe. So I decided to go vegetarian. And my mom said, well, I'm not going to cook 2 meals. If you wanna be a vegetarian, you're gonna have to cook for yourself thinking that that would put a an end to it.

Nava Atlas [00:15:07]:

Yeah. But I really took to it. I really enjoyed it. And back then, we didn't have these beautiful supermarkets or whole foods or where these dusty health food stores.

Stephanie [00:15:18]:

Oh, I remember.

Nava Atlas [00:15:19]:

Yeah. Where it was probably 70% vitamins and potions and maybe a little bit, you know, and then brown things that you'd buy by the by the pound.

Stephanie [00:15:30]:

Yes.

Nava Atlas [00:15:30]:

But we just loved it. So I bought the the brown lentils and the brown oat groats and what not that we had, and I had so much fun with it. Then, when I got married rather early on in life, my husband really wanted to be a vegetarian, but he was absolutely no cook. Still isn't. You can make a good salad, but that's about it's his limit. So we would go out once in a while. We lived in New York City at the time, and I'd like to recreate things at home or just concoct. And he said, you really need to write this one down.

Nava Atlas [00:16:02]:

You need to write this one down, and I'll write this one down. And after a while, I found myself with a lot of recipes. I was, oh, I was a trained, never trained as a chef. In fact, sometimes people introduce me as a chef and I say, that's very nice of you, but it's an insult to chefs.

Stephanie [00:16:19]:

Yeah. I feel similarly. I'm just so well cooked.

Nava Atlas [00:16:22]:

Right. Exactly. I was a trained graphic designer and illustrator. And in fact, the book you're holding, one of them, Vegetariana, I designed and illustrated. And the design and the illustrations are very similar, identical, really, almost identical to the original edition, But with some additional new illustrations that I did, this was what I called my COVID project When we were inside for 2 years, I did a lot of new illustrations for it. And that's when I veganized it.

Stephanie [00:16:55]:

It's really it's a super lovely book. It's different than any other cookbook because it has just so much personality, but yet the recipes look super delicious too. It's like every page, I feel like I turn it, and it's a new discovery.

Nava Atlas [00:17:08]:

Oh, thank you. And I also call it the kind of cookbook that you can read in bed. Because there's a lot of stories and folklore and food lore and food history, which also kind of fascinates me. How I started writing was I did accumulate a lot of recipes. We were a starving artist couple in New York City back then. I remember going to a lecture by some well known graphic designer whose name, of course, I no longer remember, but he said, if you're a freelancer, unless you do something for yourself that's completely your own, you're gonna be just going from job to job to job. And I thought, that really resonated. So I thought why don't I try to put this together as a book.

Nava Atlas [00:17:53]:

And back then everything was analog. There was just phones. In fact, there was only landlines. And I was so shy. I was it was really a miracle that I was able to be a freelance illustrator and graphic designer because back then, the way to do it was to cold call and make an appointment with the art director and schlep the literal huge portfolio. So I had to make a, you know, what I thought was a proposal and make, you know, make a copy of it and send it off to and I sent it to 1 publisher, And they kept it for 6 months before saying no. And at that point, again, I read about how the publishing process worked. I was completely naive, and it said, you've got to find an agent.

Nava Atlas [00:18:41]:

I thought, how am I, one of the shyest people on earth, going to find an agent? So my husband actually took my my really rough proposal to a copy shop across from where our studio was, our art studio. And the guy behind the counter said, oh, what is this? It looks really interesting. And my husband told him, he said, oh, my girlfriend is an agent. So he gave me her number. But of course I had to call them on a landline with my hand and my voice shaking. And they said, well, you can, you know, mail it or you can drop it off, but we know we're not looking right now, and it could take several weeks or several months. And I said to my husband, I can't do this. Can you take it up? They were also in New York City.

Nava Atlas [00:19:29]:

Can you take it up there for me? So he did, and he came back and he said, oh, they weren't very nice, and they had a dog, and he was barking at me. And I said, well, this doesn't sound good. Well, the very next morning, my landline was ringing. And they said, oh, we love this and we wanna represent it. And I think within a few weeks, they'd sold it to one of the top cookbook editors in New York City. But, honestly, I was just too young and too dumb to really appreciate what, you know, synchronicity, luck, maybe some talent, of course. We have to own that about ourselves as women, but I didn't believe it at the time. And, it was, you know, the rest as they say is history.

Stephanie [00:20:13]:

It really what a great story. I love hearing that because anybody in the publishing world finding an agent is just like finding a needle in a hay stack, and then getting the book bought by the publisher is another needle. And even, you know, if you have good publishers, some people have bad experiences. The publishing industry has changed since COVID. It's just changed so dramatically.

Nava Atlas [00:20:34]:

Yes. I mean, there has always been, I would say, you know we always think everything back then was better not necessarily. You see in vegetariana the drawings are very delicate

Stephanie [00:20:45]:

Yeah. And

Nava Atlas [00:20:46]:

white. Well, when I first saw my book in print, I cried, but not from happiness. They had inked the drawing so heavily and that some of the pages were actually sticking together.

Stephanie [00:20:58]:

Aw.

Nava Atlas [00:20:58]:

So it was an epic nightmare. But they did they corrected everything for the second printing, and the book was actually very successful. And it led me to my second, and then I thought, well, this is a great way for a starving artist to make money. Yeah. And, you know, you know, I was very dedicated at the time to vegetarianism as much as right now, I'm even more dedicated to veganism for many, many reasons. But, you know, what you say is right. I feel like and I can't give the name on the air, but I've been so blessed with my agent.

Stephanie [00:21:29]:

Mhmm.

Nava Atlas [00:21:30]:

And it is, again, sometimes it's a matter of luck or timing and and persistence. Persistence is a very important ingredient.

Stephanie [00:21:39]:

And I love this story about you putting yourself out there because we're in this kind of weird age. And I I'm am I like the the where we're at, but it's different in that now, so many people that are getting, you know, 6 figure advanced cookbook deals are influencers or have a huge following on social media. And what I find more often than not, many of them are great, but also what you the skill sets that you need to be a good social media influencer are not necessarily the same skill sets that you need to be a good cookbook author. So you can do great hands videos and 5 ingredients or less or they the publishers now just look like how many social media followers do they have. Are they on TikTok? Are they doing these videos? And that's kind of how you get the deal. I hope that we still can have some of the other types of books that are more labor of loves and are single themed or are unique and different in that way. And I'm worried we might lose some of that, and it's all gonna be gonna come about a personality.

Nava Atlas [00:22:51]:

Yeah. All of what you say is a 100% correct. And in fact, when I was, listening to your podcast with John Kung, and he was saying he has 2,000,000 followers on TikTok. Well, I have 0 followers on TikTok because I'm not on TikTok, and I have nothing against it. In fact, I think it's great. I think when people can kind of build their own platform, it's just wonderful. But aside from doing cookbooks, I'm also a a writer, a nonfiction writer. I run 2 websites, and I feel like there's just so many hours in a day and just so many skill sets and hats that one person can wear.

Stephanie [00:23:26]:

Yeah. And some of the, I mean, some of the fast quick hand photography or videography or even just, like, doing videos on YouTube. Thank god for me because as a home cook, you know, I don't know. I don't have good knife skills. I am really just like your next door neighbor that's cooking you food and has a reasonably funny personality, but that's about all I got. So it's it's fun to be able to make a career with those skills. Yes. But I also I do understand that, you know, there are people like the Ina Garten's of the world who we need to make room for them too because even though maybe, you know, she does she has a lot of people on TikTok and all that now.

Stephanie [00:24:11]:

But in the day, she didn't. And her books are really well researched and really well put together. It's kind of an exciting time, but it's also a time where there's a lot for a lot of different types of people. And young people too. Like, what makes I mean, my daughter's 25, and she's really into cooking. But she cooks things I would never cook. Like, she will make her own bagels. I would no more near make my own bagel and boil it.

Stephanie [00:24:36]:

And I just, you know, that's not really what I do, but I'm so impressed that she does it. She'll do the 4 day project cooking, you know, the making the steamed bao buns and just doing all kinds of fun stuff.

Nava Atlas [00:24:49]:

That's wonderful, though. My daughter has become a really good seitan maker. Are you familiar with it?

Stephanie [00:24:55]:

Yeah. Yeah.

Nava Atlas [00:24:55]:

And and it's my recipe and I've really refined it. But I thought sometimes it just feels like such a project to me. I'm so glad that she likes to do it. Yeah. It's very useful.

Stephanie [00:25:07]:

So is your whole family vegan and vegetarian?

Nava Atlas [00:25:11]:

I would say, you know, yes. In fact, we went vegan at the same time. My husband has kind of gone in and out of having eggs. So when he has eggs, he's a vegetarian, but both of my kids, my kids were raised vegetarian. Neither of them, and they are not young anymore. Neither of them have ever tasted meat in their life.

Stephanie [00:25:31]:

Oh, that's so funny. I can't even imagine that because we just eat so much beef in the Midwest. What I will say, this producer that I was talking to you about that's vegan, she started raising chickens. And she had all these eggs, and eventually, she started eating the eggs. And then she ended up getting rid of the chicken, so she's off the eggs again. But it it it was interesting to hear, like, how she came to even incorporating eggs into her life. She was just like, I have all these eggs. I hate the waste.

Nava Atlas [00:26:02]:

Right. And, you know, when you have chickens, they're gonna lay eggs.

Stephanie [00:26:05]:

Yeah. So, you know, I

Nava Atlas [00:26:06]:

have a friend who raises backyard chickens and, you know, she's giving them usually to my a lot of times to my husband. And it's nice to know that they're eggs that are raised too mainly, you know, where they came from and everything.

Stephanie [00:26:18]:

If you had to say a favorite recipe for you in the vegan soups and stews book, you kind of already said, the one. I just before we wrap up, is there a book or is there a recipe that feels really personal to you or something that you feel like is a signature just of yours?

Nava Atlas [00:26:39]:

I just opened to 1, the mock chicken noodle soup. So chicken noodle soup with c h I c k apostrophe n. Yes. And subtitle is kinda like my mom's but without the bird. So this uses did

Stephanie [00:26:56]:

you get that flavor without the bird?

Nava Atlas [00:27:00]:

Well, I used vegetable or vegan chicken style bouillon cubes. Mhmm. And then the chicken chicken product also, they usually have their own flavor. And it's really, you know, it's really not that difficult. I feel like this is proof positive that pretty much anything can be veganized. And I'm going back to the beginning of the program saying that I really didn't like my mom's cooking very much, but yet I loved my mom. So this super reminds me not so much of my mom's cooking that I didn't particularly like, but of my mom. Yeah.

Nava Atlas [00:27:35]:

So even looking at it and the way it looks is just just brings me back to my childhood. And I think that's so much of what eating is about. And so much of what comfort food is about is that nostalgia and that comfort of, you know, our parents or our family and the safety. And I feel like that is just such a universal human need. I always think that we're not necessarily alike as humans, but I think that we all want the same things. We want love, security, our family, and food is just such a way to bring people together.

Stephanie [00:28:14]:

Yeah. I couldn't agree more. And boy, that's a great way to end it. I love that you shared that, story. And I was just you know, that we're just coming off of the Republican National Convention, and I've been feeling a little bit like trying to be open minded, but also feeling a little tribal in my belief system. And I do think about getting back to what do what are people wanting? You when you really get down to it, we do want a lot of the same things. We come out of different points of view, but it helps me to have empathy and understanding when I'm having a hard time feeling like, who are these people?

Nava Atlas [00:28:57]:

I'm glad you said it. Not me, but I I get I get it.

Stephanie [00:29:02]:

And yeah. And on both sides, really. I mean, I'm from Minneapolis, and believe me, we have a lot of left, real left, left, left stuff happening right now. And on the one hand, some of it's really exciting. And on the other hand, I just feel like it's too much, and you feel like you're kinda pulled on all sides and not sure where the real understanding is. And I'm just trying to find my own personal empathetic path as we Absolutely. Get walking up to this election regardless of what So

Nava Atlas [00:29:30]:

Find a way to meet in the middle and things that we all have as commonalities.

Stephanie [00:29:34]:

And it is always food and soup, isn't it?

Nava Atlas [00:29:37]:

Absolutely. I think food really brings us together for sure.

Stephanie [00:29:41]:

This has been such a delight. Thank you so much for spending a little time with me today. I appreciate it. And we'll get the podcast edited and posted. It is Vegetariana. That is the original book, A Rich Harvest of Whitlore and Recipes. And the new book that's not new, but in its 5th edition, but new with pretty pictures, vegan soups and stews for all seasons, Nava Atlas. Thanks joining me.

Stephanie [00:30:03]:

I really appreciate it.

Nava Atlas [00:30:04]:

Oh, thank you. If I could just, one more thing is that people can visit me as at the vegan atlas dotcom.

Stephanie [00:30:11]:

Okay. I think I went to your website once, so I'll put that in the show notes.

Nava Atlas [00:30:15]:

Oh, thank you so much.

Stephanie [00:30:16]:

Okay. Great to meet you.

Nava Atlas [00:30:17]:

Bye bye. Alright.

Stephanie [00:30:18]:

Bye bye.